Butzer: We’ll show you our argument. At the end of Matthew (26:18-20): “to me is given all power,” etc. Thus “go forth, and make me disciples of all nations, baptize them and teach them to observe.” There we have sufficient command that we must accept the children. If we are to accept the nations, then we must accept them, as the people were added to the Israelites. How so? In this: “He will be God to you and your children.” Now I ask if the children don’t belong to the people. Then follows after baptism: “Teach them to observe all things their life long, what I have commanded you.” According to this interpretation the teaching comes after baptism, although from it one can’t tell what order the things follow each other as with some ordinance with a clear declaration. For we have Mark 1:4-5: John came, baptized and they confessed their sins and followed the preaching of John unto baptism; just as people also confessed their sins first, before they were baptized. We have the last of Matthew: “Make me disciples of all nations,” and therefore we shouldn’t exclude the children. “Let the children come unto me, for they belong in my kingdom,” in my church, and “whoever doesn’t accept the kingdom of God as the children,” etc. (Luke 18:16-17). And that is our foundation: as the Jews were accepted, so are we and our children accepted in the sacrament of rebirth.
Jörg: The first reason, which is from the apostles, pleases me more than yours; and even if it were the way it isn’t and can’t be proved, there would still be much misuse of it with use of sponsors, eating, and drinking.
(Butzer) Where is the commandment, where is the proof text, etc. Note: as to the misuse of sponsorship, Abraham also held a celebration at the circumcision of his son. And in the Old Testament they ate and drank on festival days. Sponsorship was used by the time of Augustine and arose out of love. Specifically, as John was born the neighbors came together; there, too, men have eaten and drunken. But we condemn misuse.
(Jörg) His reason has been heard and he wanted to let it rest there; and the Bible gives no better than his.
Butzer: This dispute stands to the judgment of God and of the church.
On Civil Government (Von der Oberkeit)
(Butzer) Said that government had been challenged, that the Christians should have no civil government. Repeated then the confession which was given to the Emperor at Augsburg.
(Jörg) Had nothing against it, for the Scripture instructs them that he should be obedient to the government. But when the government doesn’t use the sword properly he will not obey it.
(Butzer) The subject is to be obedient to government in everything where it isn’t obvious that the subject would act against God if he obeys. And where it isn’t quite obvious, the subject is to obey the higher conscience and not set himself to judge the government and its commands. If, however, the subject knows that the government will order him to perform a public wrong, then he should not obey – like Saul’s troops, when they were to murder the priests, for they knew that they were publicly innocent (I Sam. 22:17).
On the Humanity of Christ
(Butzer) Explained this article from various texts and concluded that if Christ didn’t acquire flesh from Mary, then he was no human, and asked if Jorg also saw shortcomings in that.
Jörg: I hold to the article of faith: his is conceived of the Holy Ghost, born of Mary the virgin.
Butzer: Romans 1:3: “He is a son of David according to the flesh.”
(Jörg) Held to the article of faith; what he hasn’t understood God will give him in good time. Could not deny that there was a basis [of argument] there, in what Butzer said, but he couldn’t speak much against it.
(Butzer) Mary of the house of David was of child by the Holy Ghost; thereby the Bible speaks of a son of David. Note: the Munsterites have said: Christ received no flesh from Mary. Now Elizabeth (Luke 1:42) said: “Blessed be the fruit of thy body”; that must be understood according to the manner of Scripture, what fruit of the body alone is meant; thus receiving from her body blood and flesh, Christ became her natural son, yet the community of mankind was added.
(Butzer) Asked if they had further reason to separate themselves from us.
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